Add filter to filter by "no start date"

[mgomez83]

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Expected Behavior

I want to be able to query tasks that have a start date. I know this might be by design per the docs, but if that is set in stone, can an extra filter to exclude tasks with no start date be added?

Current Behavior

When I filter by start date, all tasks with no start date appear when I filter by start date. I want to be able to see upcoming start dates or other filters based on start date, but I cannot do that since all tasks without a start date appear.

Steps to Reproduce

Context (Environment)

• Obsidian version: 0.12.19
• Tasks version: 1.4.1
• I have tried it with all other plugins disabled and the error still occurs

Possible Solution

[kalmir]

Reading the docs, this is not a bug but the intended behaviour: "When filtering queries by start date, the result will include tasks without a start date. This way, you can use the start date as a filter to filter out any tasks that you cannot yet work on."

I would also like to be able to filter out tasks without start date. In my case, I want to see "all tasks I could work on by date X" but then sometimes also "all tasks that are deferred since after date X". As it is now, the latter query gets cluttered with tasks with no start date.

The workaround is to give every task a start date...

[mgomez83]

Yes, it is working per the docs, which makes it a design bug. The Start date filter should behave in the same way as the other filters. For example, in my case not all tasks can or should have a start date at this point. Also, depending on other users' workflows, they might have a large number of tasks which would make giving all of them start dates unwieldy.

[schemar]

As @kalmir correctly pointed out this is by design. If you need to filter by "does not have a start date", you are likely not using it as intended. I think "scheduled" date would be more appropriate for what you are trying to do?

If a task doesn't have a start date, it means you can work on it now as it isn't blocked until the start date.

[kalmir]

@schemar , I think the intended action here is NOT list of "does not have a start date" tasks but actually "only tasks which have a start date". The use-case is common in my view, to show all tasks with start date after some date (e.g. next month) but only those. To check what tasks are "deferred to" in the future, to see what is coming, even if it is not actionable now. The way it is now with your (great!) plug-in is that such a view gets cluttered also with tasks with no start date assigned. These tasks are not "deferred" or "waiting for" and thus don't fall in this category. In my case I get to see these "no start date" tasks in other views and don't want to see them in "what is on-hold or waiting for something" view (typically there are many of these tasks thus rendering the "waiting for" view unusable). Not sure if that makes sense the way I am explaining it :)

[schemar]

If you want everything that's doable next week, then you should include the tasks that already started or don't have a start date, right? As all of that can be done next week. Maybe you want to use scheduling instead of start dates? 🤔

[therden]

Hello @schemar.

For what it's worth, I agree with @kalmir and @mgomez83 that (documentation aside), the way that Tasks' filtering on Start functions is surprising.

When we filter on Due or Done dates, tasks that have no value assigned to the filtered field are not returned -- so it is counter-intuitive that filtering on Start does the opposite: returning all tasks that have no Start value assigned.

More than that: while I understand that you've designed Tasks' Start filtering from a "what can I work on?" perspective, I have assigning Start dates from a "what must I be work on?" perspective.

However: I think that I understand (now) that that's the intended use for the Scheduled field. (In other words: the act of assigning a Start date makes the task "Unavailable prior to this date", while assigning a Scheduled date makes a task "Mandatory to work on as of this date".) Do I have that right?

[schemar]

Exactly right 👍 If I had the time, I would add an additional filter "has a start date" and improve the docs. However, I just don't have the time right now.

In your exact case @therden, it could also be a Due date, which would mean you had to finish the task by that date. Whereas scheduling means you plan to work on it on that date.

[therden]

Thank you, @schemar, for confirming my newly-achieved understanding of the distinction between Start and Scheduled dates.

I make heavy use of Due dates, but occasionally have tasks that take several days and/or require considerable preparation; I want to keep track of when I need to commence working on those. I understand now that Tasks provides Scheduled dates for that purpose, while treating Start dates as Deferred until dates, and I definitely can and will work with the labels these two features currently have.

However, I do still feel that the relationship between these features' assigned names and their functionality are not intuitive, and will likely be ongoing sources of confusion and consternation for your users. For that reason only, I hope that when you next have time to work on Tasks you will consider changing the name of the feature currently called Start to something like Hold or Wait, and changing the name of the feature that is currently called Scheduled to something like Begin.

With much gratitude for this extraordinarily useful plugin,
-Thomas

[schemar]

Thank you for the feedback Thomas, much appreciated.
In the future, signifiers other than emoji will be possible. For example due:: instead of 📆. There will be alternatives selectable, so I hope that will clear it up a bit. I will also update the documentation when I find the time.
It would be of tremendous help if you @therden (or someone else) could create a pull request with updates to the documentation. This page could use an overhaul:
https://github.com/schemar/obsidian-tasks/blob/main/docs/getting-started/dates.md
(Rendered: https://schemar.github.io/obsidian-tasks/getting-started/dates/)

[mgomez83]

I'll second that use case for planning. Another one is Reviewing and Assessing Processes. Being able to see non-actionable items together would allow me to identify bottlenecks or places for improvement/action. However, I don't need to see them in every single view that uses start dates.