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Unarmed weapon balance (Part 1 of melee weapon balance project) #39644

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Brian-Otten
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Summary

SUMMARY: Balance "Rebalances unarmed weapons"

Purpose of change

Mlangsdorf has been doing some deep analysis of the melee weapons and both analysis of dps of weapons and evaluating their strength ingame, and started a large "melee weapon balance" project. His analysis and his proposed values can be found here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14eQIe4AO_f6OxCt1XcB4NLAs6-5R1wQW-ydZG0orYdY/edit#gid=1655515751
He wanted someone to start implementing the new values ingame, so i started work.

Describe the solution

Rebalances unarmed weapons according to excel sheet. Small adjustments to "tohit bonus" to fit game_balance.MD

Additional context

Credit to Mlangsdorf for the excellent analysis and for most of the proposed values.
Credit to vastin for review of the excel sheet.
Credit to hymore24/hirmuolio for the initial complaint.

@Brian-Otten Brian-Otten changed the title Unarmed weapon balance (Part 1 of melee weapon balance project Unarmed weapon balance (Part 1 of melee weapon balance project) Apr 17, 2020
@jbytheway
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jbytheway commented Apr 18, 2020

We (some of the devs) have been discussing that when large rebalance projects like this happen with spreadsheets or other data to support them it would be really helpful for the data to be recorded in the repo for future reference. It's not always easy to trace back the changes to their corresponding PRs, and sometimes documents hosted elsewhere disappear or become inaccessible. This weapon balancing effort seems like an excellent one to set an example in this regard.

I suggest creating a new doc/reference for this type of information. So, for this project: create a subdirectory called e.g. doc/reference/weapon_balance, dump all the spreadsheet data there (I suggest using ods format) and add a README explaining what the approach was, how the formulae were derived, etc. (or at least a pointer to where such details can be found in the spreadsheets).

@Brian-Otten
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Brian-Otten commented Apr 18, 2020

Sounds great, i'll get in touch with mlangsdorf to see if he can setup such a document (since the excel sheet is his, i'm pretty much doing data entry on these).
@mlangsdorf
If he asks me to set up something i'll see what can be done.

PS: Mlangsdorf has reached out and is writing a readme explaining the excel sheet, when i have it i will post a pr putting them in the /doc folder.

@mlangsdorf
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Spreadsheet and documentation added as part of #39564

@mlangsdorf mlangsdorf added Game: Balance Balancing of (existing) in-game features. Melee Melee weapons, tactics, techniques, reach attack labels Apr 18, 2020
@SirPendrak
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Not so long ago Kevin nerfed cestus in #36012
This PR makes it super strong again.
Probably better to leave it weak cuz i suspect it will meet banhammer again.
I guess for pure damage you have steel knuckles anyway?

@mlangsdorf
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Hmm, that change landed after I had pulled the data.

Revised fist load weapons:

Item Name Item ID OVal Acc Moves Bash Cut Stab NVal   Acc Moves Bash Cut Stab NVal
bionic claws bio_claws_weapon 40.8 4 73 8 0 16 24.82   -1 73 8 0 20 17.74
cestus cestus 11.9 0 89 2 0 0 2.67   0 89 2 0 0 2.67
pair of brass knuckles knuckle_brass 10.8 0 70 6 0 0 6.18   0 70 3 0 0 4.09
pair of nail knuckles knuckle_nail 15.1 0 76 4 6 0 6.78   0 76 3 4 0 5.30
pair of steel knuckles knuckle_steel 11.5 0 76 8 0 0 6.97   0 76 3 0 0 3.77
punch dagger punch_dagger 23.6 2 71 2 0 10 11.38   -1 71 2 0 14 10.22
razorbar katar knuckle_katar 25.2 2 92 0 16 0 12.00   0 92 3 14 0 9.45
tiger claws bagh_nakha 24.0 3 66 1 6 0 8.50   0 66 2 15 0 13.23

That makes them all suck, but at least the suck in line with bionic claws.

@kevingranade
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The only one I have a super strong opinion about is the cestus, because AFAICT people end up treating it as being a very different thing than what history and the crafting recipe say it is, which is thin metal plates held in place over the knuckles with leather wraps.

@Brian-Otten
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Updated to new values by mlangsdorf

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6 participants