Incendiary grenade lights bodies on fire #1766
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Note: Only ignites bodies for 5 seconds, does not destroy them like the flare gun
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This should be controlled by an off-by-default convar, with associated admin UI. It's a significant enough change (a very low bar) to meaningfully affect strategy, and so should be opt-in. If we had a way to detect that an installation was customized, I'd say it should be on for fresh installs, but we don't have that. |
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Sounds good I will add your ideas! |
We had many gameplay changes in the past that we enabled by default, with a setting to disable. Personally I have nothing against this being enabled by default. But I'm not alone on deciding that. |
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Just a note: We added vFire support quite a while ago. The way you implemented it, it won't work when vFire is installed. Although it could be that vFire alreay sets corpses on fire. I'm not sure |
Yes vFire does light bodies on fire! I was testing my role with that installed and it worked great. |
And it is precisely those changes that make people ask "why is this different now?" Especially because the primary distribution channel is the Steam Workshop, which involves automatic, involuntary updates, behavioral compatibility should be our number one priority. Your server should only work differently when you tell it to. You may note that back when I implemented role derandomization, despite how unintrusive it is, and how it leads to objectively better meta-gamefeel, I was still hesitant to enable it by default. That is the attitude we need to apply. I don't think this change will make a significant difference in 90% of cases (most people wouldn't approach the body because of the fire anyway); that's why I'd advocate for it to be on in new installations. But it does make a difference, and will necessarily lead to strategy changes. |
Also updated changelog
We did that for additional features and not for altered features only if possible. Enabling altered features by default defies expectations, which is obviously bad So in this case i agree this feature should default to |
Scope pyramid should be gone Went in game everything worked!
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The reason I favor it being enabled is the following: Nobody will enable it, which defeats the purpose of adding it |
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I agree with TimGoll that if implemented, it should be default behavior, I think since there is already vFire support and vFire incendiary grenades already do this, it isn't the biggest change to include in the base mod. (Since vFire doesn't tell you incendiary grenades light bodies on fire now) I think it will feel very natural to include, as the body will be clearly on fire and already has target ID support, where it tells you something like "Ouch! This body is on fire, please wait a bit for it to cool down!" But if it stays far away from admins view in the equipment settings menu then they probably won't know it exists. What do you guys think? (I will update the PR if you guys still think it's a good idea) |
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I'd also argue that the case of someone checking a body inside a fire is currently almost nonexistent. Like, who doesn't just wait a few seconds? The binoculars might be an edge case, but I have no input here since I have not seen anyone use it ever. |
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You bring up a good point with the binoculars, I need to test this |
Yeah if a body is on fire, you can't scan it with binoculars, it says "Ouch! This body is on fire!" still. |
This is an argument which is too broad to be useful; it can apply to any new feature, even ones which are obviously bad. The general form of the argument goes like this:
The problem with this argument is step 3 -> 4. Fundamentally, our goal is not get people to try feature X, but rather provide people with a balanced, engaging, and above all fun game experience. If the status quo provides that, and we have no concrete evidence that feature X provides a more balanced, engaging, and fun game experience, then enabling feature X by default runs the risk of actually making it worse. The conclusion from step 3 should be "Oh well, their loss," and we should encourage playtesting and feedback or whatever it takes to get evidence that it meaningfully improves the experience. |
I fully agree, but which means are there to encourage people to playtest or adopt a feature? The vast majority of people don't read the patch notes in detail (if at all) or search for new options. We would need a way to make people aware of the changes and then force them to decide if they want to try it out or not. That would create the necessary awareness, but I have no idea if that's feasible to implement in a way that's not obnoxious. By forcing a new default (with a fallback option to the old system or similar enough to old) people will be able/forced to provide feedback and return to default if it bothers them, or leave it as is if it doesn't. But I think this needs to be a discussion of the core team internally with a fixed final decision, otherwise this discussion will come up for every change? Regardless, fallback to the old or old equivalent should be a requirement. |
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It seems like most people here on GitHub don't share my opinion. So I guess the decision is made then |
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I will close this for now, thank you guys for the input. I don't think this idea is ready yet! |
I think the feature and implementation are fine, as long as its off-by-default. |
I thought it would be neat if incendiary grenades lit bodies on fire.
Here are some notes:
What do you guys think?
I mostly made this because I have a role in development where if his body is lit on fire, he revives. But I thought it would be worth adding to the main mod as it gives the incendiary grenade some extra power since the damage isn't too great.